Hi Malstrom
Spoony made a new Ultima episode:
http://spoonyexperiment.com/2012/01/31/ultima-8-pagan/
I’m wondering, was it really that bad? I only hear bad stuff about Ultima 9, but I never heard anything about Ultima 8. Also, what’s up with the interface? Was interface a common problem back in the day? I once tried the demo for System Shock and i was completely confused, I couldn’t manage to do anything. I bought Crusader no Remorse and No Regret from GoG this winter and I can’t get past the first screen, the controls are spread all over the keyboard. How on earth did people back in the day play on PC?
Once upon a time, there was no such thing as the mouse. You had to go through DOS in order to play games. You had to type out commands and even write scripts on boot disks if you wanted your game to run. Actually, you learned how to program in order to play the video game you bought. No joke. Today, PC gaming is a joke. But once upon a time, the only people who could play games were people who understood the most basic ideas of programming and computer (e.g. make a boot disk) as well as read manuals that were as thick as a college textbook.
Ultima 8 was bad, but Spoony is just doing a ton of bad hyperbole with the game (like a Angry Video Game Nerd type of way. Quite annoying and not informative). When it was released, Ultima 8 (as other Ultima games including Ultima 9) was ahead of its time in terms of the game engine. It had the most sophisticated graphics and sound when it was released. It was released early because Electronic Arts wanted the game out for Christmas.
Origin was sold to Electronic Arts. It is why the Guardian devices to destroy Brittannia in Ultima VII were the Sphere, Pyramid, and Cube which were the symbols of Electronic Arts logo. Much of the genesis of gamers complaining about some ‘big unfeeling corporation’ forcing a release of a game that isn’t ready to be released (to make it for Christmas) comes with Ultima 8 and, generally, Electronic Arts buying Origin.
Richard Garriot, that child of astronauts who really created the computer RPG, the MMORPG, and so on, really was doing something very interesting with the last trilogy of the Ultima series. Understand that you play the Avatar (which is not a ‘character’ but your actual flesh-and-blood self who stepped into a Moongate into this fantasy world). You are supposed to represent virtues as a sort of combination of Saint and Warrior.
The Apocalypse trilogy (Ultima VII, VIII, and IX) were pretty interesting in the twists Garriot was trying to play.
VII was about the Avatar returning to Brittannia almost like he does in every other Ultima game but something is different. The Guardian was trying to enter the world by corrupting the people of Brittannia away from the Virtues. These followers attempted to construct a Black Gate in which the Guardian could enter Brittannia to destroy it. The Blue Gate (regular Moongate) allows people to travel throughout the world. The Red Gate (introduced in Ultima VI) allows people to travel to different worlds (like the Gargoyle realm). But the Black Gate, introduced here, allows people to travel to different dimensions.
Ultima VII did something spectacular with the box art. With the subtitle being “The Black Gate”, it made its box art be completely black. You will never see anything like this occur today due to modern marketing.
Garriot’s plan was to have the VII’s box be black, the VIII’s box to be red, and the XI’s box to be blue. Of course, a game developer planning out the game boxes can no longer exist in today’s marketing environment.
When Origin was sold to Electronic Arts, EA allowed Origin to exist but only with them placing their hand in everything. While Ultima VIII’s box was red, I don’t think it was exactly what Garriot had in mind. Or maybe he did. If Garriot wanted the box art to be completely black for VII, why not have a flaming pentagram on it? Garriot loved challenging people’s preconceptions.
Origin was ingenious in how it pioneered new game engines. This greatly annoyed gamers like myself who had to buy a new computer for each new Ultima game. But the reason for Ultima 8 being so platform heavy was likely due to Electronic Arts interference. Platformers sell. So platforming in Ultima would be a good thing, right?
Ultima 8 was really interesting in what Garriot intended. The Avatar was always in Brittania following the Virtues. But what if the Avatar got thrown onto a completely different world? And what if this world knows nothing of the Virtues? The actual content of Ultima 8 was supposed to be the virtuous Avatar surviving in this non-virtue realm. In order to beat the game (to get off Pagan), the Avatar must do horrific things like destroy the Titans, steal their power, cast Armageddon upon the world, and create the Black Gate. While the goal in Ultima VII was to prevent the construction of the Black Gate, the goal in Ultima VIII is to create it. It is exactly the opposite.
One of the most memorable things about Ultima VII was the Guardian taunting you throughout the game. He would intentionally give you bad advice, make fun of you, and joke around with you “Yes, that is the proper direction to go…”. My favorite was when you walked into a bar and his thundering voice booms from your speakers (making you jump): “Yes, Avatar, go inside and tell them you are THE AVATAR.” Inside are a pair of gargoyles. When you speak to them, they ask who you are. If you choose to say you are the Avatar, they immediately begin to attack you.
In Ultima VIII, the Guardian does taunt you some. But most of it is that he is talking about his conquest over Brittannia. “Lord British cries out your name!” Throughout Ultima VIII, you are wondering if the Guardian is actually conquering Britannia or just trying to depress you.
The ending of Ultima VIII I found shocking then and quite interesting. Viewed alone, separate from the game, it doesn’t make much sense. But Ultima 8 was entirely about the Avatar getting back to Britannia. And when you do, as the newly minted Titan of Ether, you arrive too late. The Guardian has conquered the world. Fade to black.
It was kind of like a “Mr. Worf, fire!” type of cliffhanger for Ultima fans. What the hell? The Guardian conquered Britannia? What happens now!? The Ultima series unfolded more like a series of novels. It was the equivalent of the author putting in an ending that makes you want to see what happens in the next book. It was quite effective as there was considerable hype all throughout Ultima IX’s making.
Spoony then pre-begins his Ultima IX angst at the end of the video. I already know what he is going to say. He isn’t going to say anything new for IX than has already been said for VIII. But he will not mention the real reason why Ultima IX sucked.
Electronic Arts demanded Ultima IX be designed to be like a best selling adventure game that had recently come out. Spoony will never make this connection even if he realized it because he doesn’t have the balls to offend the fanboys out there. The reason why Ultima IX “sucked” was because of the game EA forced it to emulate: Zelda: Ocarina of Time.
That’s right. Ultima IX is little more than series of puzzle dungeons in a 3d environment. The origin of my hatred for Aonuma Zelda is from Ultima IX. The puzzle dungeons (Aonuma’s crap) was the worst thing about Ocarina of Time. The reason why EA wanted that emulated is likely why Aonuma loves making them: because they are easy to do. If you are a huge fan of Ocarina of Time, you would love Ultima IX.
As for Ultima 8 being a ‘bad game’, it depends on who you ask. It is a disappointing game to longtime Ultima fans. But to kids who grew up with the game, they really like it. Ultima has also found new fans (recently) in places like Russia.
Ultima is the most influential video game series ever created… aside from Mario and Zelda. Ultima invented the computer role playing game, inspired Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, defined the 3d RPG with Ultima Underworld (and infuriated John Carmack when he saw the Ultima Underworld engine running better than his current game engine which, I believe, got him to focus heavily on Quake), and, lastly, invented the MMORPG with its legal rulings in Ultima Online.
When Spoony castigates Pagan for being demonic and having mushrooms, he should remember that Blizzard designed WoW’s Outland to be Pagan (if not that, then using the same exact source material. There are too many similarities). From the mushroom land of Zangermarsh to Hellfire Peninsula, Outland is Pagan.
Ultima 8 (which came out in 1994) has as its legacy of a game that followed in its footsteps which had an identical theme and similar design (this game came out in 1998). Perhaps you heard of it. The game was called Diablo.
When Diablo originally came out, it was panned by several reviewers for being like a sequel to Ultima VIII. Even in the game’s perspective, themes, and the ‘click, click’ nature was taken straight from Ultima VIII. Even the box art has the same hellish fiery theme. Diablo is identical in graphical design to Pyros, the Titan of Fire in Ultima VIII. Game developers get inspired by Ultima the way writers get inspired by Shakespeare. Is Ultima 8 bad? I don’t know. It depends if you think “Coriolanus” is ‘bad’.